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bareboards2 (Member Profile)

PlayhousePals (Member Profile)

Arizona Rattlers Football-Dancing Player

bareboards2 says...

@newtboy -- Sounds like we have reached agreement and are just discussing nuance now.

What does "by far" mean? There is no answer.

Having several decades on you, and being a woman, I have a different set of experiences to compare "now" to "then." Nobody really cares about my personal experience, though. I certainly don't care enough to go into specifics!

It's all good, yeah?

Thanks again for a respectful exchange.

Arizona Rattlers Football-Dancing Player

bareboards2 says...

Agreed.

And @newtboy is right. In the media, men are being pushed into unnatural representations of men's physiques now, in a way they haven't been in the past.

It is the comic book, super hero, action hero thing.

Again selling to men but the sexual aspect of it is skewed differently. More like -- men want to LOOK like them, not penetrate them. Ha. But the destructive message is the same to men as it is to women -- you are not worthy enough if you don't look like this.

Hence my comment said that the makeup of the future would enhance their masculinity, not make them sexually desirable. More manly, to be attractive to women, not to men.

Did you know that all that ab action in the movies is not "natural"? That right before a movie scene is going to filmed, the actor works with his nutritionist and personal trainer for at least a couple of days beforehand? They work to minimize body fat for just that day. Makeup is also used to enhance the ab definition. And that right before the camera rolls, the men do crunches to make the muscles stand out even more?

I say this because I read an interview/article about a man who was working hard to look like those guys in the movies. He was so relieved to learn that his failure to exercise his way into looking like those movie images wasn't his fault.

He didn't know. HE DIDN'T KNOW.

This is not good for men's psyches, goldurn it.

robbersdog49 said:

That would require men's and women's sexuality to work the same way, and they don't. Sex sells to men but it doesn't to women. Not to the same extent.

Arizona Rattlers Football-Dancing Player

bareboards2 says...

@newtboy.

I don't see the word fat as anything other than descriptive. That dancer was fat. I am fat. It is just a word. No "calling out" was intended.

What I meant by I wouldn't complain "as much" if men's bodies started being as constrained in the media was my inarticulate attempt to bring a sense of equality to my rant. I agree with you that there are more average looking women on TV. But "more" isn't many. What I was trying to say was -- right now, average looking men are everywhere in the media, way out of proportion to average looking women. That pisses me off. When there comes a time when average looking men start disappearing, my anger over the gender inequality of numbers will fade.

My anger over the under-representation of average-looking won't fade, though. I'll be equally as pissed on behalf of both genders.

I'm glad that you are engaging with me, and much more respectfully than I have engaged with you. I knew I shouldn't use the term "willfully blind." I was peeved and that wasn't fair nor kind. I apologize.

I will stick to "blind," though. The studies are there. Any casual watching of movies and TVs supports my position. So why are you blind, then? The facts don't support your position. Your claim to research is a puzzle to me. What research, when all the research supports my points? I concede your point that it is better than it used to be, but "by far"? No, my friend. Not "by far." Not even close to "by far."

Every little bit helps, though. Thank god for Gabourey and Melissa and Amy Schumer who proudly weighs a stupendous 160 pounds and makes fun of Comedy Central for trying to make her starve herself into stickness.

I remember weighing 160 pounds, when I was in my late 20s. I thought I was fat. Hell, I thought I was fat when I weighed 140 pounds. Now I weigh 240 pounds, and I really am fat. I wish I had Amy back then. Of course, she is a product of the latest wave of feminists who are calling bullshit on... well, the list is long. I'm so proud of her.

And I'm proud of my contribution that made it possible for her to do what she is doing. Yippee for us!

Thanks for such a respectful exchange. My apologies again for my ill-chosen, ill-mannered words.

Arizona Rattlers Football-Dancing Player

bareboards2 says...

I honestly don't understand your point about Cindy. I don't get the feeling that she is dancing off the pounds. This feels like a BBW jerk off vid. They do exist.

If she is celebrating her own sexuality, good for her.

As for your claim that I am blind to representations of women in the media, you have said that to me before. You were wrong before, you are wrong now. There are numerous studies that show that women are underrepresented in the media. There are numerous studies proving that women's movie and TV careers are severely circumscribed when they reach a certain age. Without breaking a sweat, I can name a dozen sitcoms starring fat men with slender to average wives and two that star(red) women of size -- Roseanne and Mike and Molly. And this just sitcoms.

I know there is nothing I can say about this subject, because I believe you to be willfully blind about the facts.

And yes, as I always do, I acknowledge that the unreasonable standards of beauty that women are held to is happening more and more to men. I do not think that is a good thing. It is a spreading cancer. Ignoring that is happens to women doesn't stop it happening to men.

And I hate Magic Mike I and II. Stupid plot, stupid dialogue, boring as shit and not enough dancing . The Full Monty now? OH yeah! Fat blokes, skinny blokes, gay blokes, old blokes, ginger blokes..... That is a movie that celebrates life and interpersonal relationships.

newtboy said:

So, you would have been OK if someone talked about the ugly, fat woman dancing with (or without) the over sexualized male cheerleaders? ;-)
Like her....
http://videosift.com/video/Cindy-dancing-off-the-pounds
I don't think that's right.

On a more serious note, if you are only seeing perfect, thin, over sexualized women in the media, I think that's on you for only choosing those types of programs.
EDIT: Oh, and the movie you want is Magic Mike.

Arizona Rattlers Football-Dancing Player

bareboards2 says...

Turns out the big guy wasn't a football player. He was the choreographer.

Explains his own sexualization.

I get your point, @artician, about women being able to claim their own sexuality -- and their own bodies. I have become a huge fan of Amy Schumer for that very reason.

This kind of crap though -- they aren't claiming their sexuality for themselves, it feels to me. It's some weird "selling" thing where they are the commodity. Besides -- if we are going for equality -- when men sell their sexuality like this, when the only thing we get to see in the media are perfect beautiful men wearing tight clothing and makeup that extenuates their manliness, I won't complain as much.

I think it will be a horribly sad state of affairs that plain men, and fat men, and downright ugly men will no longer be seen on TV. My preference would be that we see plain, and fat, and ugly women in equal proportion to men's roles, and that women have more roles than men's children, wives, mothers, girlfriends.

When the fat guy came out, I sure enjoyed him. And at one point thought -- dang, I'm looking forward to the day a fat woman dancing gets whoops and hollers. (Bless you Melissa McCarthy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Arizona Rattlers Football-Dancing Player

bareboards2 says...

He was great. The women were good dancers, but I was sick to my stomach at the sexualization of their dress and their movements. I know that makes me an old fogey, and yes, there are lots of men and women who think it is just fine.

BUT FUCK ALL. The women were wearing bathing suits, for FUCK'S SAKE. They imitated SEXUAL ACTS for FUCK'S SAKE.

Yes, I'm an old fogey. Don't bother coming here to lecture me on my old fogeyness. I GET A FUCKING OPINION HERE TOO.

Ya'll get to post these videos and have fun with them. I get my own fun of PISSING ON YOUR FUN.

It's even steven, as far as I am concerned. I suffer a little bit, and you suffer a little bit. EVEN STEVEN.

(He was great. Don't like the sexualisation of him, either, but at least he was dressed.)

Nephelimdream (Member Profile)

Oh my god

bareboards2 says...

I, too, thought the camera was in position to catch the "weirdo" coming out. Not looking at the camera because it was the source of shaming?

We don't know.

But what is quite wonderful is that both points of view were immediately offered, none with a shaming aspect.

Progress!

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

bareboards2 says...

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll tuck it away as data for my informal survey.

I discovered Kathleen Madigan a couple of years ago and loved her. I don't know why she isn't more well known. I get pretty bored by most stand up -- Louis CK being an exception. Thanks for the link -- I'm definitely going to watch it.

And thanks for taking me at face value. Really refreshing.

Mordhaus said:

I can't speak to the feminist portion of your question. I am not a feminist; more of a humanist, really. I could assume that having a related ideology might make her jokes more palatable, but it would be only a base assumption.

I asked my wife to view this clip on youtube, without reading the comments on this link. She is not a feminist either, so I simply asked her as a woman, did she find this funny? She said that clip was "mildly amusing" but she did not believe me when I told her that Amy was one of the top female comedians right now. Bear in mind that we don't watch cable, only Netflix and Prime, so she has not had exposure to her comedy skits on Inside Amy Schumer.

I do think Tina Fey is funny for the most part. I love Iliza Shlesinger. Kathleen Madigan puts me in stitches. I would say that this clip https://youtu.be/4wzpYDnqhiI is hilarious and meets your aforementioned criteria. The thing is, I personally find that clip hilarious, and I can't really say that about most of Ms. Schumer's work.

Remember that weird ass creature you made in Spore?

oritteropo (Member Profile)

newtboy (Member Profile)

bareboards2 says...

In actual fact, I'm hoping that hair comes back to where it used to be!

(Thanks for the congrats. I feel all warm and fuzzy now!)

newtboy said:

Congrats on turning 9. Pretty soon you'll be noticing members of the opposite sex and sprouting hair where there was no hair before!

bareboards (Member Profile)

bareboards2 says...

LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

Frick.

Nine years, not including a few months of timid lurking.

Can you imagine. I was timid. I thought I would never post a video, so I didn't try to save my first SiftName.

Well, I never imagined nine years later the Sift would have become so important to me.

True fact -- @eric3579 was the first person to contact me. And he is my best bud still on the Sift.

BECAUSE HE IS AWESOME.

Thanks Sift and Sift community.



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