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Man Arrested & Punched for Sitting on Mom's Front Porch

bareboards2 says...

It is so tiresome when I write reasonable and reasoned arguments, and people rewrite what I say into ridiculous exaggerations and misstatements.

Tiresome. Just tiresome.

Man Arrested & Punched for Sitting on Mom's Front Porch

bareboards2 says...

Well, I fully support the Black Lives Movement. Peaceful, and sometimes agitated, marching for justice. Gay Rights. That explosive moment at Stonewall in Greenwich Village, when the gay men fought back and said NO MORE.

Do I want a single woman who is in danger of being physically assaulted to "fight back?" A single gay man? A single black person? No, honey bunny, I absolutely do not. I think that is the height of idiocy for a single individual to fight back against one, two, three men. Especially when they are armed and have proven that they are capable of using that weapon in anger, fear, adrenaline.

Keep yourself safe, deescalate the situation if you can, submit to rape [edit] IF you think the man/men will kill you if you do fight back -- fight back if it is safe to fight back. (Interesting stat -- something like 90% of assaults against women are by single unarmed attackers. No gun? No knife? Try to avoid, try to deescalate, and if that doesn't work, fight back and yell and make yourself as difficult a target as possible.)

I took a self defense class years ago, geared towards women protecting themselves from violence by men. Not because I was afraid, but because of the psychological skills that we were taught about setting boundaries, taking charge, making choices -- skills needed in every day life that can also be applied to rare events of possible violence.

It was called Powerful Choices. Choices, my friend. Choices.

I must say, it is shocking to me that so many people live in a zero sum world. A black and white world. Where there is only one way to respond despite the actual circumstances. That this moment has to be used to fight larger battles or you are a failure.

I am a big fan of using your noggin to be safe. A fan of demonstrations (I prefer peaceful.) A fan of changing the laws, the procedures, the culture. A fan of acting strategically for the long run.

So you have me all wrong, my friend. All wrong.

Asmo said:

Okay, so when men dominate women unfairly, you're happy for women to curtsy and live by men's leave..? Because men might threaten violence against women? Because that was the way it was? There was never a point where you stood up even though you feared it might result in harm to yourself?

There comes a point in time when it's no longer okay, when people are driven so far and they can't take it anymore. Surely you can understand that? How many women, or gays, or blacks, or "insert whatever you want here" have suffered because they were willing to stand up and fight against the tyranny?

Man Arrested & Punched for Sitting on Mom's Front Porch

bareboards2 says...

You know I agree with you, right? I am the one who said that this incident is the worst example of racism, after all.

To me, things like this are just more proof that every person who interacts with police should treat them like dangerous people they have the potential to be and show absolutely nothing but abject subservience. Because you absolutely can't trust them, whether you are white or not.

It can get you shot, making your point that "you can't do this to me" patently untrue. They can and they do.

So unless you are mentally ill or intent on "suicide by police", allow the humiliation and tug at your forelock.

Live to fight another day. Save yourself legal fees. Don't spend the night in jail. DON'T ARGUE. Seethe and GET EVEN.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

And get the training and the resources where they need to be.

Mordhaus said:

Pardon me, shots. It was a criminal level of incompetence. Yet neither the Commander who gave 'conflicting statements'(lied) nor the Officer have been charged with anything, even at this late date. Additionally, something else I forgot was that they let the victim bleed while handcuffed for 20 minutes without providing any first aid or making it a priority that he was treated. It was lucky that he didn't bleed out or go into shock.

But this is the type of thing I am talking about and was referencing to @bareboards2. I mean, I'm white and of Italian descent, so I could do damn near anything to an officer and not be killed. I even conceal carry, although they know that as soon as they see my license or run my plates. Yet we have people of color that are being run rampant over, be it racism or fear of a different culture/people. Like in that video where the guy was shot and the female officer's husband was in the pursuit helicopter saying that he looked like a mean black dude. We simply can't keep this up.

Man Arrested & Punched for Sitting on Mom's Front Porch

bareboards2 says...

@Mordhaus There are plenty of mentally disturbed people who will "resist" and provide enough fodder for the cellphones to keep the momentum going to clean up this mess we are in.

Don't resist, dude. Don't be a stat.

(That guy lying on the ground wasn't being shot at, it was the other guy. What is so horrible about that particular situation was that the attendant was explaining the situation and he was ignored. You know because he was black. To me, that situation is the worst case of racism ever -- that a working black professional is not believed when he explains the situation.)

Man Arrested & Punched for Sitting on Mom's Front Porch

bareboards2 says...

I agree with just about everything you said. Except...

This isn't a perfect world. You described this imperfect world. This guy should wait until all the corrections are made? Or does it make more sense to seethe silently and await for the humiliation to end NOW?

The situation with police departments getting training (and support for mentally ill people BEFORE they flip out) does need to be fixed.

Until it is, play meek. Unless you want to be arrested. Hit in the eye. Humiliated on your front lawn. What do you gain from fighting a losing battle IN THIS MOMENT?

Mordhaus said:

I disagree. Police are not supposed to be our masters, we are not supposed to bow and scrape before them in the hopes we don't get sent to the stocks (or worse). Police are simply supposed to enforce the laws that we, as a society, have decided that we all should follow.

The problem is, we have allowed the police to become more than that through our own lack of care and mismanagement. A policeman should have to undergo more rigorous training and background checks, mental and physical, than any other service we provide to ourselves. Instead we pay them about the same as teachers and we let bullies into the system. We also allow people with significant evidence that they should never have positions of authority due to mental issues to become police. We do not rigorously punish the bad cops, nor prevent them from seeking work elsewhere, leading to the same type of thing that led to catholic molesters being shuffled about to molest again.

As far as police fearing others, can we finally say that the number of police fatalities are far less than the the ones inflicted by police? Yes, we have many guns in the USA, but the few times I recall of a police person being killed by one seem to revolve around them experiencing a retaliation style attack when you would least expect it (and not on a call), or when they are alone and on a remote call location. Yet most of these controversial police shootings of suspects seem to happen when they are in a group of officers with weapons drawn, which I would consider far less of a jumpy situation than being alone on a highway. If I am an officer, with multiple other officers nearby, I have weapons on the suspect (taser or otherwise), why am I more worried than if I am alone with a suspect? It simply doesn't make sense.

Finally, referring back to your resisting comment, have we not seen lately that you can still be shot while doing absolutely no resisting? One man was laying on the ground, hands in the air, while telling a mentally ill patient of his not to do anything that would get him shot, and the man on the ground got shot. Here in Austin we had a mentally ill man running naked in the street and he was shot and killed versus being tasered or taken down. The use of force, and the extremity of it, have not been shown to be merited. So if you can be shot and killed for not resisting, or simply not understanding the commands in the short time you are given to do so, what can we do? Should we carry a pair of handcuffs and a taser so we can pre-apply these items and give the cops less to fear?

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