enoch says...

oh the sweet irony.
santorum is playing this working class crowd like a pro.
the crowd which most likely benefits from their union negotiated retirement and health plan yet now view unions as somehow being the antithesis of the working class and bad for the average worker.

oh how easy it is to manipulate those with none of that fancy "learnin".

mtadd says...

I love how the last shot has a guy on the right clapping whilst wearing a sweatshirt with a University of Michigan logo. Oh, the sweet cognitive dissonance.

longde says...

Not all colleges in California are as expensive and exclusive as Florida. You have many community colleges or 2nd/3rd tier regional universities. So, while it is not free, college is accessible for all.

Choose a prudent field of study, and your investment will go far.>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Peroxide:
Not everyone should go to college.
But NO ONE should not be able to go because it's too expensive.

http://videosift.com/video/Noam-Chomsky-Education-For-Whom-and-For-What

Here Chomsky talks about how going to a City college in Mexico is free. In California, one of the richest places in the world it totally isn't.

entr0py says...

And here's Obama's actual quote:

Obama, Feb. 24, 2009: And so tonight, I ask every American to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training. This can be community college or a four-year school; vocational training or an apprenticeship. But whatever the training may be, every American will need to get more than a high school diploma. And dropping out of high school is no longer an option.

Sounds like godless liberal elitism to me. Slow down there Lenin H. Rockefeller

http://factcheck.org/2012/02/college-kills-faith/

ChaosEngine says...

Yeah, fuck you people. Only people like Rick Santorum should go to college, for instance to get an MBA and a law degree.

Actually, scratch that. Santorum is the a walking advertisement for how monumentally useless college is. After all, if you can get two degrees and still be a complete moron, something is wrong somewhere.

Words cannot express my distaste for this asshole. At least Palin had the decency to be hilariously stupid, this guy's just a fucking stain on humanity.

Yogi says...

>> ^longde:

Not all colleges in California are as expensive and exclusive as Florida. You have many community colleges or 2nd/3rd tier regional universities. So, while it is not free, college is accessible for all.
Choose a prudent field of study, and your investment will go far.>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Peroxide:
Not everyone should go to college.
But NO ONE should not be able to go because it's too expensive.

http://videosift.com/video/Noam-Chomsky-Education-For-Whom-and-For-What


Here Chomsky talks about how going to a City college in Mexico is free. In California, one of the richest places in the world it totally isn't.



No I'm sorry this just isn't true. I am well versed on this because I just had to move from Southern California to Washington just to get the classes I need to finish my degree. I was stuck for two years not able to get classes cause they cut them in half. There's not enough classes because all they're looking at now is the bottom line.

So college isn't accessible to ALL, and in the wealthiest nation on earth it should be FREE...it isn't, not even close.

EDITED for spelling cause I haven't finished college

longde says...

WOW. May I ask what two classes these are?

Sorry to hear that. Things must be different now. I couldn't imagine a senior level class being unavailable when i was in school.

Ryjkyj says...

I have to agree with Santorum. Can you imagine what a socialist paradise the new communist America would be if everyone was a professor of constitutional law?

Yogi says...

>> ^longde:

WOW. May I ask what two classes these are?
Sorry to hear that. Things must be different now. I couldn't imagine a senior level class being unavailable when i was in school.


It was more than Two Classes...I just realized I had to change from a degree to a Surgical Technician certificate instead. Maybe those classes are available now. I just know while I was down there I was trying to get the same classes in 3 different Community Colleges and each time I was totally blocked.

I've been going to College for the past 9 years...I used to be able to go to the class the first day and easily get in because there were only 10-20 people in any class on campus. Now it's just not that way, cuts cuts and more cuts screwed everything up.

EDIT: Even up in WA I have to go to two colleges cause one didn't have my Bio class that I need for Surgical Tech...because they only have ONE class open at each college per quarter. Just ridiculous when it fills up before I get a chance to sign up when the servers open.

VoodooV says...

Standard right wing hypocrisy. It's OK for ME to go to college and get an education, but if YOU go to college, you'll magically turn into a godless hippy liberal bent on indoctrination.

Don't go to college and be "indoctrinated" but sit there and cheer while I make my speech and indoctrinate you so you vote for me so I can indoctrinate you with the bible.

Once again, the right uses words it has no clue what it really means. Like freedom, like traditional marriage, but the definitions all follow one central theme:

Right wing definition of traditional marriage: I can marry who I want, but not you.
Right wing definition of freedom: I can do things that infringe on your freedom, but not you.
Right wing definition of reproductive rights: I can have an abortion, but not you.
Right wing definition of education: I can get an education, but not you.

Common theme = selfishness personified

Winstonfield_Pennypacker says...

Snarky responses miss the point. One of the next bubbles on the horizon is the education bubble. Obama's takeover of the student loan racket has in essence created an environment of government subsidized college. That's bad. It is artificially inflating the cost of higher education to the point where even community colleges are overpriced.

Couple that with the widespread fact that colleges at all levels are underperforming and highly questionable in value. The ROI of a college education is plummeting to the point where an Associate's degree is worthless. A Bachelor's is rapidly reaching a point where its value is dubious at best - especially in the Arts & Humanities. The only Bachelor's really worth anything is a BS.

So why tell thousands of kids to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a year or two in college when it is overpriced and gives them no return? Just to say they did? A lot of them would be happier and get a better 'education' just by getting a job, or going to a technical school, interning, or some other option than just droning up and marching through college like a good little worker bee.

volumptuous says...

Pennypacker, so desperate to show everyone that everything should cost a zillion dollars and that Obama is somehow taking over everything, including for-profit colleges, to rip apart the fabric of our once great society.

The mental gymnastics never ends.

direpickle says...

@Winstonfield_Pennypacker: The only change with student loans since Obama has become president is that they've removed the middleman. The government was already requiring that certain people be able to get loans of certain values. The government was already guaranteeing these loans to the banks (they were NO RISK to the banks. The government would pay if the student defaulted, and the banks still got to collect the interest, from the government when subsidized and from the student with not). The only change is that the government gets the interest now instead of a bank that puts up no risk--this saves a lot of money.

So, the government simplifying the student loan business has not contributed to the tuition inflation, because there's not any extra loan money available--it's actually harder to get money (beyond the basic loans) now, from friends' experiences.

Tuition inflation is a huge problem, though, and it's definitely due to the fact that with loans now "anyone" can afford to go to college, and even with jacking up the prices there are record enrollment rates. This does need to be addressed. It's not because of Obama, though.

It is because a lot of people think a college degree is supposed to be job training--I'm sorry, it's not, unless you're getting an engineering degree. A liberal arts or humanities degree is not worthless, though. It's an education. In the US, a college degree is supposed to give you an expanded knowledge, context, and understanding for the world (this is why college graduates come out as liberals). This may help you in a job, but that's not its primary goal unless you're looking for a job specifically in that field.

So part of the problem is that everyone wants to get a four year degree now, because they think it's the only way they'll ever get a job, even when they have no intention or desire to work in a cubicle like most 'requires any 4 year degree' jobs. There ARE other forms of higher education, though. There are community colleges and trade/vocational/technical schools. In fact, Obama has explicitly said that he thinks some (many? most?) people should be going to those instead of four year schools.

That said, the way forward in the world for the US is an educated population. There is just not that much more call for unskilled labor (that Americans will do) here. Even in manufacturing, while we still produce an immense amount of goods, so much of it is made by machines in the US that those numbers aren't reflected in manufacturing employment. Building/selling/maintaining those machines is where manufacturing jobs go when it cranks up here, and that requires skill.

ryanbennitt says...

Santorum has realised that what the US really needs is to be competitive on the world market and its a waste to educate people to any level when you want them to work in sweat shops for no money under harsh working conditions. He's dreaming of a cold economic war with China.

enoch says...

@direpickle
while i am with winston on some points.
ie:student loans being the next bubble and how a college degree has much less of employment/salary rate

i agree with with you that it is not something that should be set at obama's feet but i was unaware of the changes how the government dealt with those loans.
so i thank you for this new perspective.
seems i need to re-evaluate my position.

Yogi says...

>> ^Mauru:

this logic makes my head hurt. There are no conservative colleges?


There's one...but it's not conservative it's reactionary. Yeah there's very few actual "Conservative" colleges...because the word has no meaning in the US.

NetRunner says...

I'm not so sure one can blame student loans alone. I'm gonna put a disclaimer up front that I haven't really read any studies into the cause of college tuition inflation, but the "gubbiment loans make people who don't need/deserve a college education get one" sounds like a libertarian think-tank's conclusion, not a real answer.

Basically persistent price inflation has to be a market failure. All you do by giving a subsidy to college students looking to get an education is put upward pressure on the demand curve. If supply is fixed, sure, that will only lead to price inflation, but supply isn't fixed is it?

I mean are Universities facing increases in their costs? What costs do they have that would be increasing? Are professor salaries 7 figures now? Seems like that would encourage more people to train to be college professors, and drive that salary cost back down a bit.

What other persistent costs do universities have? Grounds upkeep? Keeping their facilities up to date? The latter can be quite costly, but which facilities would be both so necessary and so costly to update that it's forcing a massive spike in tuition across the board?

>> ^direpickle:

Tuition inflation is a huge problem, though, and it's definitely due to the fact that with loans now "anyone" can afford to go to college, and even with jacking up the prices there are record enrollment rates. This does need to be addressed. It's not because of Obama, though.

direpickle says...

@NetRunner: It's not about poor people being able to go to college. It's about everyone having access to immense amounts of (borrowed) money with which to go to college. Universities are like businesses: they like money. Even if they're not stockpiling cash or being 'for profit', they like money. They like to tear down their old buildings and build new expensive ones so that they can get on the covers of magazines. They like to hire prestigious faculty. They like to get money, and they like to spend money.

Even if their fixed maintenance/faculty/staff/utility/etc costs are "low" (which I'd dispute, but even putting that aside), they will always find ways to spend money, and since they continue to have record enrollment rates even with tuition hikes, they'll just continue to raise tuition (and, yes, perhaps hire more professors) until demand stabilizes.

I usually yell at people for going all 'herp derp supply/demand', but that's really all it is here. It's about as simple a case as you can have. I am not trying to make the case that poor people should not be able to go to college. I don't know what the solution is.

I know that at least my state has a law putting a cap on yearly tuition rate hikes, and the universities raise the tuition by exactly that much every year. Making those requirements tighter might help matters a little. A campaign to tell high school students that it's okay if they want to do a vocation instead of a 4-year university degree might help a little. A boom of new accredited universities springing up on every idyllic hill might help by creating competition, but that is not something that can happen quickly enough to save what really is a runaway higher education system.

direpickle says...

@NetRunner: Really, the for-pay university system in general is the problem, and the student loan system is a... really shitty offbrand bandaid that left all sorts of cotton and grit in the wound and got it infected. But sure. Call me a libertarian some more!

NetRunner says...

>> ^direpickle:

@NetRunner: Really, the for-pay university system in general is the problem, and the student loan system is a... really shitty offbrand bandaid that left all sorts of cotton and grit in the wound and got it infected. But sure. Call me a libertarian some more!


Sorry, I wasn't calling you libertarian, I know you're not one of those!

VoodooV jokingly says...

I think Obama shot my dog...
I think Obama got my wife pregnant...
I think Obama gave me cancer...
I think Obama was on the grassy knoll...
I think Obama actually shot Lee Harvey Oswald...
...he probably shot Lincoln too with that time machine he learned how to make...IN COLLEGE.

That fucking snob!

quantumushroom says...

Criticizing any candidate seems a slam dunk...until you remember the marxist clown in the White House RIGHT NOW.

Are you enjoying the higher gas prices, higher food prices? Double digit unemployment? More wasteful and impotent spending? Crony capitalism AND crony socialism? (redundant)

Speaking of kollij, when will His Earness be releasing HIS grades and kollij papers? I mean, he's a GENIUS, riiiiiiight?

RFlagg says...

I think a good deal of the problem is the lack of federal regulations over colleges and universities... and education as a whole (a couple religious nuts in Texas shouldn't be dictating what kids learn in school across the country... but I digress from the college topic). We have tons of Brown Mackie, ITT, and other so called colleges that are nothing more than diploma mills. They say they are accredited, but ignore the fact their accreditation means zero in the real world, and if you want a 4 year degree after doing one of those mill schools, you'll have to start from scratch because no reputable school will take those credits... and they prey on the working poor who don't, or don't think, they have the time or talent or whatever, to go to a reputable school. "One class a month for 2 years"... of course, what can you really learn in that one month? In a programming class you'll be barely past Hello World... and I fear the medical student who didn't get the proper time... Then the student ends up with a $25k loan that they can not repay, because there is no way they can ever get a good enough job to pay that loan back, so they end up paying a huge percentage of their income to a worthless loan. The government needs to set accreditation standards and come down against the diploma mills, stop them from saying they are accredited, force them to be fully honest that their education will not count for any reputable schools, stop them from using words like college or university and use something like "center for continuing education" that offers a certificate, not a diploma or degree, which are terms that should be reserved only for those that are reputable. Then don't let them give out guaranteed loans since they lack proper accreditation. The education loan bubble, if it exists, exists in large part due to these diploma mills.

NetRunner says...

I see what you're saying, and that seems plausible on the surface. I could easily see Universities and Colleges just taking "profits" and folding them into projects around the university that don't directly impact their productivity (hey, let's build a new art museum, hey let's build a supercollider, hey, let's pave the walkways in gold...). That way the increased revenues don't show up as profits or even budget surpluses.

But again that speaks to a more general market failure. In a situation like that, competitors should be able to recognize that there's inefficiency, and take it as an opportunity make a profit by opening a competing firm that's more efficient.

This is supposedly the mechanism that punishes firms that grow fat and inefficient -- a more efficient competitor can swoop in, sell an equivalent product at a lower price and make what used to be your profits into their profits.

All this is making me want to go googling for an economic analysis of the drivers in tuition cost increases. Unlike with health care, I can't really think of much that's special about the higher education market that would make traditional market mechanisms break down.

>> ^direpickle:

Universities are like businesses: they like money. Even if they're not stockpiling cash or being 'for profit', they like money. They like to tear down their old buildings and build new expensive ones so that they can get on the covers of magazines. They like to hire prestigious faculty. They like to get money, and they like to spend money.
Even if their fixed maintenance/faculty/staff/utility/etc costs are "low" (which I'd dispute, but even putting that aside), they will always find ways to spend money, and since they continue to have record enrollment rates even with tuition hikes, they'll just continue to raise tuition (and, yes, perhaps hire more professors) until demand stabilizes.

ponceleon says...

Bullet potentially dodged. Looks like Mitt took the primaries.


You all know I'm a bit more on the left, but this guy really scares the living shit out of me and I feel a LOT more comfortable with the idea of Romney in the White-House than this scary scary fuck.

VoodooV jokingly says...

Way to continue your long tradition of reasoned, arguments with no ad-hom attacks @quantumushroom.

nope, no trolling here. We're lucky you're here spreading your pearls of wisdom instead of spending your valuable time at more reputable websites like...Conservapedia.

deathcow says...

> Romney in the White-House

As I have always said throughout the banking crisis, stock market collapse, mortgage scams, and banker buyout of Washington, you know what America needs? A scammity investment banker at the helm.

It makes me sick that, like Mitt says, we borrow $215 million a year from China so kids can watch PBS without commercials. That's just one sign of the Mitt Genius.

Hey if it weren't for that PBS deficit maybe we could have thrown that $215 million in with that other (1 million TIMES 1 million) dollars we spent on the F35 Joint Strike Fighter program alone (total estimated cost) and maybe the thing would be actually safe to fly by now.

messenger says...

According to the Factcheck article, College does challenge individual faiths, because it has a positive effect on people switching faiths. The problem is it doesn't shake faith in faith itself, which is what I think you were talking about.>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^entr0py:
Sounds like godless liberal elitism to me. Slow down there Lenin H. Rockefeller
http://factcheck.org/2012/02/college-kills-faith/

That's disappointing. College should kill faith. Well, maybe not kill it, but certainly wound it. If you go to higher education for a few years and you aren't exposed to ideas that make you at least question your faith, you and/or your college have failed in your education.

messenger says...

How the uneducated make arguments:
1. Pick a random problem in your life.
2. Say your chosen target did it.
3. Repeat until it gains traction.

Oil prices are not controlled by your government.>> ^quantumushroom:

Are you enjoying the higher gas prices?

quantumushroom says...

Pretending or denying Obama's lack of experience and leadership hasn't negatively affected the US economy is as intellectually dishonest as it gets.

Oil prices are not controlled by your government.

Where were statements like this when Bush was being blamed for high gas prices? Nowhere.

Oil prices are affected by the federal leviathan's antics every day. Gasoline is taxed by the government, and although it shouldn't be deciding which industries thrive and which fail, here we have the Amateur and his merry crew losing billions of taxpayer dollars to bullsh1t green solar companies while vetoing the Keystone Pipeline.

Our enemies know His Earness is spineless. You think iran would be playing these games with a real leader in the White House? Or are you going to state that iran doesn't directly control oil prices so it "doesn't count".

And oh yes, what about the scamulus? FAIL.

Whether "fair" or not, the guy in charge at the time the fit hits the shan gets the blame. Deal.

>> ^messenger:

How the uneducated make arguments:
1. Pick a random problem in your life.
2. Say your chosen target did it.
3. Repeat until it gains traction.
Oil prices are not controlled by your government.>> ^quantumushroom:
Are you enjoying the higher gas prices?


quantumushroom says...

The bullsh1t is so deep around here I thought you'd appreciate skipping the smell test and getting right to it.

So here's to hoping enough people are awake enough not to get fooled again by The One (and Done).

>> ^VoodooV:

Way to continue your long tradition of reasoned, arguments with no ad-hom attacks @quantumushroom.
nope, no trolling here. We're lucky you're here spreading your pearls of wisdom instead of spending your valuable time at more reputable websites like...Conservapedia.

messenger says...

My cards on the table: I think Obama is a horrible leader, one of the worst I've ever seen in elected office. I thought he had great vision before, and I liked his early actions in the Middle East, but he seems to lack the balls to do anything decisive. Even if he made strong decisions that I disagreed with I'd respect him more than I do. On that count, Bush was better.

What good would the Keystone Pipeline do the US? All it does is remove oil from the States to sell abroad. How could this possibly be a good thing?

Assuming "scamulous" means "stimulus", then yes, of course it failed. Nothing would have succeeded. And if he hadn't given a stimulus package, the Republicans would have jumped down his throat for doing nothing. But per your last comment, "the guy in charge at the time the fit hits the shan gets the blame", so you accept then that the entire worldwide financial crisis is Bush's fault anyway. Deal.>> ^quantumushroom:

Pretending or denying Obama's lack of experience and leadership hasn't negatively affected the US economy is as intellectually dishonest as it gets.
Oil prices are not controlled by your government.
Where were statements like this when Bush was being blamed for high gas prices? Nowhere.
Oil prices are affected by the federal leviathan's antics every day. Gasoline is taxed by the government, and although it shouldn't be deciding which industries thrive and which fail, here we have the Amateur and his merry crew losing billions of taxpayer dollars to bullsh1t green solar companies while vetoing the Keystone Pipeline.
Our enemies know His Earness is spineless. You think iran would be playing these games with a real leader in the White House? Or are you going to state that iran doesn't directly control oil prices so it "doesn't count".
And oh yes, what about the scamulus? FAIL.
Whether "fair" or not, the guy in charge at the time the fit hits the shan gets the blame. Deal.
>> ^messenger:
How the uneducated make arguments:
1. Pick a random problem in your life.
2. Say your chosen target did it.
3. Repeat until it gains traction.
Oil prices are not controlled by your government.>> ^quantumushroom:
Are you enjoying the higher gas prices?



kceaton1 says...

>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^entr0py:
Sounds like godless liberal elitism to me. Slow down there Lenin H. Rockefeller
http://factcheck.org/2012/02/college-kills-faith/

That's disappointing. College should kill faith. Well, maybe not kill it, but certainly wound it. If you go to higher education for a few years and you aren't exposed to ideas that make you at least question your faith, you and/or your college have failed in your education.


I agree with you, but what you are saying is EXACTLY what doesn't happen. I know many people that hold doctorate level degrees yet they still think creationism is great; even THOUGH the science they (literally) use in MANY instances is BASED on evolution and it working as purposed by many scientists--over a very long amount of time; and the evidence is ONLY getting thicker and higher not falling apart and slimming it's waistline--it's madness. BUT, the key thing here is that all of these people have one thing in common, all of them... They all wanted to learn about THEIR field, but when it came to anything else outside of it--even fields that are directly linked to their fields--it didn't matter, because they are of a single-minded process.

They happen to not be as curious as you or I and of course many other people that even when they learned a lot about what interested them, they realized that there was NO FENCE and that the rabbit hole (as it is said) keeps going. I think many other people have successfully quarantined sections of their life of from other sections. Their mind functions like the CDC and it is why we start ending up with people with seemingly underlying psychological issues like Rick Santorum, as they treat their life like it is literally a world alone unto themselves.

They can hear and see all the information you say, but unless you have gotten their curiosity they will treat it as a contamination and try to find a way to dispose of the information--meanwhile, if they have psychological problems, their brain is actively helping them in their routine.

I've been confounded as well, for a longtime. Like I said if you pay attention the one thing you SHOULD learn from EVERY class you have taken is that the rabbit hole has yet to stop. So it seems like education would in fact drive a wedge between you and any faith as you learn more, the more you should realize how much we still have to learn. It should make your faith seem even smaller than you feel compared next to the Universe if you ask me... Some people must just be too fat and get stuck in their relative rabbit hole.

VoodooV says...

Why even Ron Paul?

Sure I agree with him on foreign policy and social issues, but everything else he's a complete lunatic and/or amoral.

What's that? I knowingly sold you something that was harmful? too fucking bad.

For a long time I thought if I had to vote for a Republican, I could vote for him. I can't say that anymore. They're *all* lunatics this year.

There was once a time I could have supported McCain, but you certainly couldn't say that during the 2008 election. They're all doubling down on crazy. Moderate Republicans are an endangered species. It's like they honestly didn't learn their lesson with Palin and it's like they're intentionally trying to lose. Buddy Roemer was amazing on Bill Maher a few weeks ago but even he has given up on trying to steer the Republicans more moderate.

Fuck this two party system...may it burn in hell.

quantumushroom says...

My cards on the table: I think Obama is a horrible leader, one of the worst I've ever seen in elected office. I thought he had great vision before, and I liked his early actions in the Middle East, but he seems to lack the balls to do anything decisive. Even if he made strong decisions that I disagreed with I'd respect him more than I do. On that count, Bush was better.

>>> You think Obama failed because he wasn't liberal enough, is that correct? I saw no vision, just a clever media-protected imago who freely admitted he acted as a mirror or canvas for everyone to project their ideas onto him. Middle East failures are no surprise. He's an appeaser, his offered olive branch to the turbaned vermin was predictably shoved up his you-know-where.

What good would the Keystone Pipeline do the US? All it does is remove oil from the States to sell abroad. How could this possibly be a good thing?


>>> It would do more good than fake solar companies. Special thanks to the current idiot Energy Secretary for admitting out loud what the rest of us already knew.

Assuming "scamulous" means "stimulus", then yes, of course it failed. Nothing would have succeeded.

>>> Where were you with this warning before the scamulus began (and yes, Bush conceived it but Obama supercharged it).

And if he hadn't given a stimulus package, the Republicans would have jumped down his throat for doing nothing.

>>> Back to leadership: a real leader can take it. FDR's scamulus was also a failure and revisionist history hides its lack of effectiveness, but at least FDR said of his enemies, "I welcome their hatred."

But per your last comment, "the guy in charge at the time the fit hits the shan gets the blame", so you accept then that the entire worldwide financial crisis is Bush's fault anyway. Deal.

It's a tad more complicated than that. Bush Hatred was a daily staple of the libmedia diet and people were naturally disenchanted with negative-only libmedia reporting on the wars. I'm not sure if Bush got the lion's share of the blame for the Follies of '08...he does deserve blame for the initial scamuli, as well as acting like a liberal with a few conservative tendencies.

The seeds of the banking crisis were sowed by government ineptitude and corruption. Few people take huge risks with their own money, so when a socialist government funds a "Free Houses for Poor People Who Can't Afford Them Act" program and promises banks "risk-free" support of loans and investments to do so, people act accordingly.

Europe has European socialism to blame for its follies. Someone's gotta pay for all that free honey, and when there are more freeloaders than worker bees the hive collapses.

May the majority of bewildered voters not be so readily fooled this year, even if it means electing a stiff like Romney. Welcome back stability after His Earness and his planned chaos. And Barney Frank belongs in an orange jumpsuit for his role in the financial crises.












>> ^messenger:

My cards on the table: I think Obama is a horrible leader, one of the worst I've ever seen in elected office. I thought he had great vision before, and I liked his early actions in the Middle East, but he seems to lack the balls to do anything decisive. Even if he made strong decisions that I disagreed with I'd respect him more than I do. On that count, Bush was better.
What good would the Keystone Pipeline do the US? All it does is remove oil from the States to sell abroad. How could this possibly be a good thing?
Assuming "scamulous" means "stimulus", then yes, of course it failed. Nothing would have succeeded. And if he hadn't given a stimulus package, the Republicans would have jumped down his throat for doing nothing. But per your last comment, "the guy in charge at the time the fit hits the shan gets the blame", so you accept then that the entire worldwide financial crisis is Bush's fault anyway. Deal.

messenger says...

@quantumushroom

>>> You think Obama failed because he wasn't liberal enough, is that correct? I saw no vision, just a clever media-protected imago who freely admitted he acted as a mirror or canvas for everyone to project their ideas onto him. Middle East failures are no surprise. He's an appeaser, his offered olive branch to the turbaned vermin was predictably shoved up his you-know-where.

No. I think he failed because he has no balls. He has done everything in half measures, trying to please everyone. If he just pushed his own agenda balls-to-the-wall, he'd be getting a lot more respect from the rest of the world, and Americans too. I think Americans value a strong President even more than one who shares their point of view. On that count, Obama is a ridiculous failure.

>>> It would do more good than fake solar companies. Special thanks to the current idiot Energy Secretary for admitting out loud what the rest of us already knew.

No, it wouldn't. A pipeline taking oil OUT of the country, including American oil couldn't possibly help. Other sources of energy that are used within the country could. In any case, neither choice has any real effect on gas prices.

>>> Where were you with this warning before the scamulus began (and yes, Bush conceived it but Obama supercharged it).

I said it several times back in '08. I may have even said it here.

>>> Back to leadership: a real leader can take it. FDR's scamulus was also a failure and revisionist history hides its lack of effectiveness, but at least FDR said of his enemies, "I welcome their hatred."

That's what I'm saying. Guy's not a leader. He's not even a speaker. He's a speech reader. He did a great job of that during the election, and hasn't done much else since.

messenger says...

@quantumushroom

Aside: It's interesting to watch your tone switch to a normal balanced adult when you're talking about Bush's failures and challenges, and then back to know-it-all teenager again when bashing Obama. All points of view and topics deserve adult rational discourse. I have to translate everything you say into adult before I can answer it.

Also interesting is that you're willing to say terribly offensive things like "turbaned vermin" to describe Middle Easterners, but you just can't bring yourself to type "asshole" in the same sentence.

Meh.

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